Tuesday, September 18, 2012

a small update on Vivaldi

What a crazy year it's been for our little Vivaldi tablet project. Lots of ups with Plasma Active developing by leaps and bounds, with version 3 coming out this month and many of our efforts starting to improve our other form factors such as Desktop, and so much learning with regards to the state of the hardware world in Asia.

With our chosen hardware, we dealt with the completely typical (for the industry segment) GPL violating company which we negotiated with to change that ... only to have them simultaneously renig at the last minute and, while introducing a new revision of the board not only break our prior work but noticeably decrease in build quality. This was a massive, massive set back for us.

We didn't give up immediately, but kept banging our collective head against that particular wall until we exhausted all rational options. We began looking at various other options in the meantime for hardware production. It's been a grueling few months, which at one point was one contributor to my health generally failing forcing me to take a number of weeks away. (I'm feeling very good and all in one piece again, in case anyone is wondering. :)

Armed with the things we've learned from our first go-around, we began exploring  the Asian manufacturing world again. I've noticed a few differences this time: first, I'm able to ask the necessary questions a lot more effectively, and as a result get rather better answers. I'm also able to read between the lines a bit more effectively as I learn the business lingo of this sector's culture, which really also helps.

But recently a really eye-opening thing happened. One person I'd been working with previously contacted me, said they had recently moved to another company that also produces the sorts of electronics we need and started with "... and we have source code."

This was the first time I'd had a company at this level in the game approach me with that line. Are we, collectively, getting through to them? Maybe. One person, one company, one effort at a time.

I'm not going to say anything about the hardware we are looking at using. Last time that didn't turn out perfectly, so this time we'll wait a bit longer before sharing that information ... though I expect that when we start sending devices around to people for demos and engineering work that it will still come out. :P Anyways ... what a ride, but we aren't done yet.

In fact, that is a question I've had to stare down a few times: Is this worth doing still? In times when things look completely bleak and you've just had your most recent negative answer handed to you, that question pretty much finds you without you going looking for it. I've found my answer to it has shifted over the last few months. For a brief period of time it was, I'll be honest, "No, it is not worth doing." I hated that answer, though .. it felt unnecessarily wrong. So I dug more and the combination of seeing that the tablet space is still very much open (with all sorts of speculation about Android's position in it, Apple's ability to keep a death grip on the space, the rise of Amazons and others, etc..) and the reaffirmation that if we don't make open devices who will, I feel it is more important than ever to keep going.

After all ... someone came back to me and started their sales pitch with ".. and here's our source code." Halle-fucking-lujah.

49 comments:

Nikolai Vincent Vaags said...

As someone who's been following this (and preordere) since the first announcement, I have complete understanding for the problems you're facing, and I'm still eagerly awaiting whatever comes out in the end!

114957767966840687923 said...

I'm totally happy you are not giving up. Thank you for your hard work, I'm glad to hear you are all one piece now.

In my ignorance I would throw a stone in the lake and see what happens: what about the nexus 7 hardware? I *think* (just by guess and not by knowledge) if CyanogenMod developers can build a custom firmware for it, it is possible to run Mer on it. For sure the bootloader is not locked. Of course it should be verified what non-free drivers are shipped with it, if those can work on Mer and most important: if Asus want to collaborate.... I don't have strong hope to be honest.... but who knows?

In any case I strongly hope you will find the right OEM and you will be able to release a great tablet. I definitely want one!

Marko Paasila said...

Have you tried to contact JollaMobile? At least they work on Mer and co-operate with hardware manufacturers, so they could possibly provide some valuable information or contacts...

slashdotaccount said...

Maybe you should be working with Qi Hardware? They will start with "our CPU designs, case designs, software and other parts are under open licenses". Way better than what you have now or will ever have with any other company.

http://qi-hardware.com/
https://sharism.cc/

Diederik van der Boor said...

Very glad you haven't given up. IMHO it's where the great CEO's stand out from the good/mediocre:

The great ones never quit, don't give up, and "stay on the line". That's how their companies became succesful as well after all.

StephanG said...

I just want to comment on the single question, "Is it worth it?"

After thinking about it for a few minutes, I realized it's actually quite philosophical. Because it depends largely on who you're talking about. For you, it might definitely not be worth the effort. But, for someone buying the device it might well be, as he didn't pay the exorbitant amounts of time, energy and frustration that you did.

But, I also want to encourage you with the thought that what all your sacrifice is buying isn't just an neat open-tablet.

It's a precedent.

Drew said...

I tried mentioning to you about ZaReason's ZaTab which may be hardware you can build on.

ZaReason already sells computers with Linux installed (choice of distribution) and the ZaTab is already running "Custom Android-based software based on CyanogenMod 9" (http://zareason.com/shop/zatab.html)

I contacted them and they said "members of the KDE Plasma Active team working on several of our ZaTabs" so I don't know if you are directly involved or not.

Unknown said...

Thanks for giving it all you got!

Do you know the Raspberry Pi recently started producing their boards in the UK? The board I recieved a week ago is made in a plant in South Wales.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1925

plc said...

I can't say how nice it is to get some news, however grim it might look!

I have basically been holding my breath since july, anticipating the next piece of news.

Please keep up your fine work commitments, knowing that you have a patient audience that can't wait to buy the product they have been looking forward to! :-) (excuse the paradoxical wording).

Rootdev said...

"Is it worth it?"

It seems that you've already answered that. To me it is the single most important thing since the first free and open source operating system appeared.

We, as a free software community of developers and users, only have a few classes of computers we can use. If you can succeed, we'll have a foot on the most rapidly expanding class (tablets and mobile). We will be able to not only spread the word but also help manufacturers thrive, because they will not depend on getting permission from the major players to release their hardware.

Please don't give up! I spend a lot of of my time trying to convince manufactures that if they release GPL drivers, they may spend less energy on lawsuits, proprietary agreements and so on.

Like StephenG said, it is a precedent, and, IMHO, the most important one since the dawn of free(dom) software.

Del said...

Thank you Aaron, if the world only had more of you!

Please do pay attention to your health. The last thing we need is you burning out, nothing is worth that.

Yes, it certainly is worth it. The only relevant question is whether you could have done even more working on another open project. Personally, I believe you are betting on the right horse though.

Please consider popping me a mail if you ever come to Norway :-)

1m93 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
1m93 said...

As Nikolai, I am still interested in the preorder. Whatever time it takes :-)
Seriously, it is about time for an alternative to the fancy fashion tablets with their closed worlds. Otoh, don't let the project touch your health!
Regards,
J

previouslysilent said...

I am impressed with the endeavours.

This project reminds me a little of the "boot to gecko" plan, only you've actually got working software, and had working hardware.

I am wondering if the Google Nexus7 or KindleHD would be a good platform to build on; if you could make it dual boot android + plasma then it could really boost the project as a lot of people have bought android tablets.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Guido said...

If you contact some people that walked this way before, maybe they could help you, for example Sean Moss-Pultz (Freerunner, gt02) his company is based on Taiwan, if I remember FIC was behind the smart-phone project:
http://www.openmoko.com/freerunner.html

Also another people from Germany are working on gt04
http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Contact&referer=GTA04

Again If one door is closed another is open, don't give up.

Guido said...

Also the people from Germany offer some customizations:
http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04%20Custom&referer=GTA04
They said:
"We know that not everyone can use the standard GTA04 in their applications. There is a need for individualized devices, e.g. having a larger display or a different battery. And not all applications need UMTS or GPS or even the highest speed OMAP3 that is available.
To fulfil this demand, we can also provide custom variants of the GTA04 board by leaving some components unpopulated. Two 60 pin Board to Board connectors (Hirose DF40-60DP-0.4V) allow to interface to your application specific adapter board."

wvh said...

This project is more important than I first thought. After playing around with Android and IOS tablets, it becomes pretty clear these devices are locked down end-consumer black boxes. Their popularity marks a shift from relatively open computers to form factors that are tightly controlled by vendors for their own respective purposes. Apple has iTunes and App Store, Google has Search, Maps and Play Store, and Amazon of course tries to peddle books and media from their collection.

Therefore I'm quite surprised that this project doesn't get more help from the open-source world ant its leading figures, the users and open-source friendly vendors.

However, to sell a product, it still needs to set itself apart from the competition. There needs to be a clear benefit to the tablet for people to want to pick it up, and I'm not sure "mere" openness will create enough interest in the project to keep it afloat.

There could be something special about the hardware, such as extra storage space, a plethora of connectivity options, audiophile quality sound, built-in Wacom Digitizer, anything that sets it apart. Or the software could offer a nicer experience, better design or possibilities not found in other tablets yet.

If openness is the only selling point, not only might the group of potential takers be rather limited, but any semi-open move by Google or any Android vendor – such as releasing a more geek-friendly device – might distract a lot of buyers away without necessarily providing a truly open platform.

Hence I think that not only is this project necessary, it is also extremely hard, having to fight hardware suppliers for openness, other tablet vendors for competition, and potential customers for interest and finding among all those other shiny toys.

Good luck!

Kjetil Kilhavn said...

@wvh: To me the Vivaldi will set itself apart from the competition. None of them have *anything* like the activity-centered interface - as far as I know ;-)

My wife bought an iPad, and I have an Android telephone myself. I am looking forward to the day when I can use the Vivaldi which will let me use an activity for work where I need to keep track of time spent on various tasks (billing, got to live), and another activity for the archery club. The two will have absolutely nothing in common, and while the iOS and Android lets me organize like that application by application it is built right into the software concept in the Vivaldi and thus becomes so much simpler.

Like several others have said: I'm still waiting for the Vivaldi to become available so I can throw some money at it :-)
I'm thinking I should buy not one, but a few Vivaldis - and leave them around so people can try them and crave them!

maninalift said...

Thank you for your work and thank you for sharing this.

It is quite encouraging to see in the comments that there are more open hardware efforts out there that I didn't know about.

The raspberry Pi project is quite different to Vivaldi. You would not be able to design your hardware from the ground up (or at least from the chip up). However they may be useful people to make contact with.

These are people passionate about a hackable platform who also want to see open hardware (add are facing challenges with that). Unlike any other such group however, they are shipping a device which is ahead of the closed-source competition in the power-per-penny scale and is shipping hundreds of thousands of units.

Even if there is no direct way you can work together right now, setting up links to encourage and support each other - an open hardware confederation if you like - could be a positive step.

Thanks again

Mitch Golden said...

Don't give up. I have been holding out for Vivaldi.

Rootdev said...

I think that this project is so important that maybe yo could "crowdsource" more help, if needed. If you need anything (say, some guy endless pitching asian vendors for open drivers), I want to help.

On a side note: what about Samsung Galaxy Note II and the Allwinner-like devices? They are supposed to come with the Male 400 GPU and I think the Mali 200 reversed engineered drivers might work...

And, btw, get more rest if you need. Thank you for your efforts

Wren said...

The Vivaldi project is the spearhead all that is good of open source efforts. I believe it is paramount to continue.

Silviu Marin-Caea said...

I wonder if talking to an European company instead of Chinese would not have been wiser.

I'm thinking of Archos. They probably do their manufacturing in China, but they already got that nailed, so you would not have to worry about that.

The only problem I could see would be volume, but you'd have to ask.

thinkfat said...

I'm sad it didn't work out, but I can not say that I'm surprised. As you correctly said in your Akademy talk this year, all that counts is volume. I found your "rounding error" analogy quite fitting. I hope you succeed eventually.

thinkfat said...

Oh, and what Silviu said ;)

Luca Gabbrielli said...

Go ahead don't stop

gizanamooo said...

Well done on persevering. I desperately want this tablet. Not because it's open source (although that is nice) or because it's KDE. I want this because I think I need it and it seems well designed. I'm a 'project-orientated' person, juggling multiple tasks and businesses at once, and the design of plasma active suits me perfectly.

Is there a link where we can donate to the project?
On another note, does anyone want to buy my Zenithink C71+ ;-)

Unknown said...

I have to be Honest, when this project was first announced I was hopeful that this would be my laptop replacement. I still love plasma active, but I have some serious doubt as to weather you'll be able to produce hardware that can compete feature wise and price wise with what the other tablet makers are doing now. The windows 8 tablet/laptops look really good from a a hardware perspective, I imagine they won't be too much different from current ipad prices. When they are released I might just try to hack one up with plasma active.

Unknown said...

Hi aaron,

Is it true that you live in zurich? I ma also a great linux fan and live in zurich. Up for a beer once?


email me at

suvi
at
gmx
.
ch

cheers
suvi

bruce said...

I second Silviu's thought re Archos :-)

They seem to actually go out of their way to show their GPL compliance (and they have everything nicely on gitorious (http://gitorious.org/archos)).

If they were receptive, it would be nice to support a company who support the open mentality that's so important for this project, and there are also the obvious benefits of them clearly showing their GPL compliance.

It would also be a great PR thing for all involved :-)

STiAT said...

I already thought this project died, not hearing a word for month. Especially not hearing a word of you was pretty much concerning me.

Anyway, I'm still waiting, and wish you the best with the tablet project. Taken that much care in licensing and developing the solution, I'm sure the result will be worth it.

Sola said...

First of all: thanks for the hard work done on the Vivaldi. I think this is a truly important effort

You are absolutely right that we need more open alternatives to Android and iOS.

My suggestion would be to use this setback well and make a proper update to the tablet hw.

Make this tablet a real contender hw wise. It should run on a quad core Cortex-A9 processor, 2GB of RAM, 1280*800 IPS screen and a huge battery for at least 10 hours of runtime.

Your target segment should be the laptop-replacement crowd, the people who would like to use the tablet with keyboard+mouse as well. This means that some kind of docking station should be made available when it ships.

Pascal d'Hermilly said...

I have an Archos 101 G9. And I just want to say "Don't go that way". It was cheaper 30% than the Samsung galaxy tab my dad bought, but the quality is a world of difference (build and performance). My archos tablet often freezes for 1-2 seconds where you can't do anything. It is a major bummer and it didn't change after upgrading android.

Unknown said...

I second what Sola suggested about making a tablet to replace laptops. That is who and why tablets are getting so popular.

My suggestion is to use good hardware, even if it was more expensive, and try to get Active Plasma working as fast as possible and then worry about open hardware.The Galaxy is an excellent starting point. I would also look into making some sort of a deal with Samsung. I believe they would be receptive to work something out just to compete with Apple.

Stefano Badoino said...

This might be of some interest to you...

"Carsten Munk has announced libhybris, a bridge between the Bionic C library used by Android, and glibc - the C library more commonly used by Linux systems (including everything from Maemo to Ubuntu and, especially, Mer).

What this means is that binary-only hardware drivers, built on top of Bionic, will be able to run on top of a glibc system with Hybris. This will allow easier adaptation of Mer, for example, to hardware where there are Android drivers, but not free software ones."

More info and a little demo here

libhybris sources here

libhybris in action here

Shmerl said...

Aaron: Just to note, that since you switched gears from dealing with Zenithink, the Make Play Live site is now misleading (in the hardware section). It's probably better to remove the obsolete information from there to avoid further confusion.

Günter said...

Let me add something to the wishlist, the purists might not like it but I tend to be pragmatic:
Given the fact that most of the current services that provide apps for mobile devices only do so for iOS and Android:
Can we please have a device that dual boots flawlessly between Android (4.x, preferably x=1) and Mer/Plasma Active? That way we would not lose lots of useful things and still have freedom. The best of both worlds, in a way.

Kushi Purac said...

I have no need for a tablet (still find my 9 and 13inch net/laptops more useful) but I am definitely still in for the Vivaldi tablet.
Supposedly hardware in China is really cheap http://venturebeat.com/2012/09/15/hardware-is-dead/ but it might be better to pay a bit more instead of cutting hardware corners which show up later.


Hope you are feeling better now and learned from this experience not to fall in the same pattern.

jabgoe said...

Thanks for the update. I already feared vivaldi project had gone down the drains like so many other projects before. I'm really looking for an alternative to the apple-universe and the googleoid computers. So keep up the work!

Kosmas Chatzimichalis said...

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for the update and well done for not giving up!

Hope that everything goes well at the end.

As another person here commented about the hardware solution, there was a very recent review of the ZaTab here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/zatab-zareasons-open-tablet

And there's anything I could help with please call for help (I'm also living in Zurich).

testingwithfire said...

So glad to hear that the Vivaldi project still has life. Every time I try to do something a little out of the ordinary on Android, like trying (and failing) to play FLAC files on a samba share, I realize how much I need a Linux solution.

I'll definitely be following your progress.

Mark said...

So I want this to work out, but I have to ask... Why does ALL of the hardware need to be opensource?

What is the benefit of that? I mean are you insisting that ALL hardware be open, or just the things like drivers, etc...?

Citizen of the World said...

I'm glad I decided to check up on the Vivaldi tablet again tonight - it's great to see some progress! The tablet market certainly lacks a fully open device.

I'm no expert on the open-source side of things but I do like to support open-source software as much as possible and I personally think open source hardware is the way of the future. I know that I would pay more for a truly open tablet but how much more, I don't know. I know there are plenty more people who would pay at least a little too.

I'm just going to lay out a few of my observations about tablets here, I hope I don't blabber too much.

Google (and Asus) have thrown down the gauntlet to other manufacturers, at least in the 7" tablet field. I have seen it suggested that Google might be making a loss on that tablet but looking at the price difference beteween the 16 and 32GB makes me think otherwise. I'm not in the business of selling tablets so for me it's a little frustrating to see the vast differences in price for things such as storage and 3G in the tablet world. Obviously being able to stick a sim card in is a benefit but I, for one, feel violated having to pay an extra €100 or so for the privilege.

If there's room for a standard sized SD card I reckon that would be a nice feature because quite a few people I know still use a standard SD card in their cameras and would love to be able to stick it straight into their tablets. Not an essential feature but a micro SD slot is a definite selling point for some people. A standard-sized USB slot would also be a nice feature but obviously could be a bit hard to find space for, especially if the tablet's slim.

Another couple of things which would be great for productivity are a stylus that works well like those that come with Samsung Notes and a keyboard case. In my line of work both of those would be very useful additions. Obviously the stylus isn't for everyone and no doubt requires a lot of work (Samsung teamed up with Wacom) but maybe something worth thinking about further down the line. Again, a keyboard case is obviously not for everyone and could be developed by 3rd parties, but really the tablet should be at least a little successful before starting production. If the tablet size/s are kind of "standard", people will be able to use existing accessories. I take it you won't be using any proprietary connectors!

If you brought out a well-priced 7" tablet with semi-decent specifications I would buy it tomorrow. I know there is definitely a market for larger tablets but that does tend to drive up the price and I would prefer for the device and the system to prove themselves before investing larger sums of money.

Last but not least, please try to ensure that there aren't any glaring faults with the hardware. I don't know how hard quality control is but maybe sometimes paying a little extra for some of the components is better in the long run. I'm an owner of a Notion Ink Adam who had to send it off to Germany at my expense to have a broken power switch replaced. I'm almost certain they sent me a different device (unless they removed the screen protector for some reason) and I'm pretty sure the screen is slightly less responsive than the original but I didn't want to stuff around with sending it off again. After sales service is probably something you'll have to give a little thought to.

I look forward to hearing more news about the Vivaldi - good luck!

Aaron J. Seigo said...

"I mean are you insisting that ALL hardware be open, or just the things like drivers, etc...?"

if we were insisting on all open hardware ... we wouldn't be looking at ARM ;)

right now we're focusing on the software support. and even then we're making some compromises that are necessary due to the current landscape.

milestone 0 is a "regular Linux" (read: not Android) device that works WELL.

milestone 1 is that sort of device with ALL Free software

milestone N will be Free hardware.

we're a long ways from that yet. and we're retaining our pragmatism. however, even being pragmatic, it's an uphill slog.

we're getting there though :)

Claudia Huurkman said...

Why instead of thinking little you don't go on Kickstarter and ask for a big budget to produce many many tablets? So you would have more power when you talk with chinese manufactures.

I really hate my ipad at the moment. I would love an open platform with KDE. But...I don't want to be harsh... I would never buy a shitty tablet just because it has KDE.

phelanm said...

desperate to get a kde tablet, wishing you success, thanks.

alfred said...

The inception of tablet PCs brought about some additional components in the computer market. Slate and touchscreen tablets do not come with in-built keyboards. However, one can choose to buy an accessory keyboard and attach it. Computer manufactures provide accessory keyboards and mice for their touch tablets and slates.
e_cell

Tabletas para niƱos said...

You need to sleep and think about if it's worth to continue.

Mark said...

Maybe the question should be "Does it matter?"

I love the distro of Linux I use but I use it on a laptop full of proprietary hardware. What's the difference?