Yesterday I was hit by the idea of putting KRunner at the top of the screen and making it 'slide in' when called up. The "floating dialog" just wasn't doing it for me anymore and so I went ahead and implemented this to see what it would feel like. After working out various kinks, I have to say that I really like it. So I decided to do a quick screencast showing KRunner in action at the top of the screen for you to watch and then, hopefully, offer some feedback on it. It's even better if you can try it out yourself by building from SVN trunk, of course, but I know not everyone can or will do that. If the reactions are generally positive, this will be the default for 4.4.
There are two small problems with the screencast, however. The first one is my fault: I forgot to show that you can click on and move the KRunner window back and forth along the top of the screen. The second problem is the typical screencast software fail: it doesn't capture smoothly enough to show any of the animations so you'll just have to trust me when I say that the KRunner window animates in and out of the screen nicely. Those animations are done by KWin, using the same effect we wrote for the autohiding panels in fact, and they are super sexy smooth.
Anyways, you can watch the screencast on blip.tv, download the Ogg file or watch it in the embedded player below if it shows up for you:
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73 comments:
Looks very nice, though the configuration portion with the plugin checkboxes looks too short by default.
Would be great if it could appear at the bottom too.
Excellent idea (I'm a yakuake fan myself)!
A couple of suggestions; maybe you should make the screen edge configurable, ie, from the top, bottom, or either side of the screen. My thinking is that tying it to the top would conflict with those who like to have their panel on the top of the screen, as well as the fact that on larger monitors, the top of the screen can be a ways upward (neck-straining).
I kind of like the idea of having KRunner slide out horizontaly on the left side of the screen, right where you'd normally see the KMenu.
Just some ideas.
I think I would probably stick with the free-floating mode, myself, but it's good to have the choice.
I like the ability to resize the applet. I prefer free floating myself. If giving choices to appear, give options for all 4 sides.
Very nice improvement in terms of aesthetics and usability.
I'd like to see the plasma widget chooser work like this. It would make for a consistent UI framework. As it is now you have to scroll sideways to choose widgets, and for some reason I had scrolling sideways to view things. I think the norm is to scroll up and down
I think the krunner text content should be big sized - may be 2-4times bigger than normal font size so it stands out waiting for entry.
I think there should also be a default listing of recently used commands/applications so there is no need to type them again
ui could look like:
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/3761/examplev.jpg
Cool. Very nice looking, much slicker than the previous look. The only thing is, why offer an option to go back to the old way?
Seems like this is a classic example of where an option would be superfluous and contribute to clutter. Is there a legit reason for the top bar causing problems? Seems like its better to leave the option out and only put it in if there's a revolt..
Another reason to make krunner bigger, is when you have many windows open, it is sometimes hard to distinguish krunner (due to size and color) from other applications in the screen as by default before any matching of keyword takes places the width and height of krunner is small.
By adding recently used and making the text entry big, krunner on alt+f2 is very visible even with a crowded workspace.
I like it. I would have loved to see the animation but never mind.
If there's another choice that I would add is the option to appear at the bottom. The option to appear on either side doesn't make sense to me (I hardly see anyone using this option).
Hi Aaron, looks awesome!
Only suggestion I have for now is to work on the show/hide animation to make it slide a little instead of being quite so insta-show.
I like it! As of now, krunner sometimes is lost if you have lots of windows on the screen ... this would be good.
My one suggestion for improvement would be to allow it to slide in from any edge (right and left sort of don't make sense but what the hell). I have a dual-monitor setup and the "top" of my screen is really quite high up as I use a vertical layout (yes, my company downsized my desk too).
Cheers.
I don't really see much of a difference between the old way other than the animation and that it can't be moved. However, I do think that krunner is better the center since it's more natural to look at something in the center of the screen. As long as there's an option to use the floating window, I think it's fine.
Amazing!
Is it possible to make it behave like a panel - e.g. touching top border with mouse would bring krunner up?
Looks really cool, but I would also vote for configurable screen edge. Being a heavy yakuake user I'm afraid KRunner will not work well together with yakuake.
Just compiled and tried it out and it feels much more natural. Seeing it move in and out makes much more sense than it appearing magically in the middle of the screen. It reminds me a little bit of the kwin effect that moves windows out of each others way when switching between them. The desktop makes more sense with these things turned on.
I like it! No doubt yakuake users like myself might find this useful but I wouldn't make it a default immediately. There are reasons why people would still use the free-floating mode.
I would probably use this new mode but only if it would work nicely with a top panel and yakuake active.
What about being able to drag the krunner window, like you are right now, and when you move it to any screen edge it sticks there and remembers the position for later invocations?
Additionally, both edge centers and window center could be magnetic. That way, you would be able to place the krunner wherever you want (any corner, 3/4 of the top edge, whatever) and also to easily center it, so it remember it's centered if the screen resolution changes or whatever.
Summing up: much more flexibility, more intuitive (I think), and less explicit configuration.
Not sure I'd use it. For a start I put my (what is the kde4 version of kicker again it escapes me!?) bar on the top, so not sure what would happen there. Must say I'd always expect something in the middle, but again the choice can't hurt... as long as it's not feature-creep-itis like kde3 had! :)
It's an interesting idea, but I prefer the old one because it puts krunner in the most important place in the screen, right in front of you.
Btw just as a curiosity I do think the windows run dialog always showed up in the corner, not centered (but it's been a long while).
I like it a lot. Although I would also like to be able to position it anywhere on any edge by dragging it and if I would drag it away from the edge it would just be similar to the current way and there would not be any need for this configuration option in the settings dialog. I also agree with what kriko said above: make it possible to activate KRunner by running into the edge of the screen if it is on the edge. BTW would it be possible to add configuration so that KRunner already starts with some initial entries displayed, like having an option to select between showing favorite or most recently used apps or similar.
This is polish! I like it. It is the sane and logical place. Seach at the top and lots of space for results below.
Amazing that nobody came up with that sofar.
KUTW
really great!
add keyboard navigation in search results and that's the best command running app in existence (which it should be)
Looks quite cool... In my opinion best would be to have the choice if you want to have it in the center, top, bottom, left of right (or even let's say at 75% left)
But there's something I don't like in krunner, if you for example type in 'kon', konsole and konqueror will apeare, why is it not possible to use the arrow keys now to choose? Why are they 'bound' to the textfiled?
I like the idea to place it on top of the screen.
A bit off-topic: I think krunner still needs too much time to appear in general, and to display its results, even with 1-2 plugins enabled. Is it too bloated? Is there room for optimization?
seems wonderful. but it would be reaaly good if i could also set it to show at the bottom of the screen. not only because i got used to it when i used docky gnome-do, but also because i have yakuake open 70% of the time... btw, what happens if you call krunner while yakuake window is showing?
Looks nice, I like it!
Also it's good to to have more options on where to have it pop up.
As near everyone else, I just like it :)
But if it can be made configurable to have it on the bottom, it would be wonderful (I use a top panel).
Maybe you could use a "picture" of a monitor to let the user choose the position of KRunner (just like the "screen edge" KCM.
Looks very great!
I was thinking, if it was possible to extract the code to make a generic class for stickable dialog/window ? The idea behind this is to have delegate class/program that allows to load kparts and make them stickable or floatable at low cost and in a generic way.
Good idea, on by default or solely, I often lose the window currently (free floating).
As said on identica, I prefer the "Katapult-way" (centered), let me try to explain why:
If I want to run something quickly, I bring up KRunner. It should immediately grab my attention, do what I want and quietly disappear. When I want to run another thing, I bring up a "new" KRunner.
Yakuake on the other hand is something that's always there. [Technically speaking this applies to KRunner as well, but I'm thinking from a user's (my) point of view].
I use Yakuake for IRC, compiling etc. They are still running, even if I hide Yakuake. When I bring up Yakuake again, its state is the same as before.
I wouldn't mind if it was configurable, but personally I think centered is a better default. I would guess that it's also easier to miss when it appears at the top.
On a related note, what do you think about making KRunner disappear when focus is lost? Yakuake works this way (configurable), and Katapult as well. I use these applications in a modular way*, so it would make sense I think.
-
(*) Not sure I use the right term. What I mean is that I work with these applications when I bring them up, and let them disappear when I want to do something else.
Just as everyone i am really willing to have such function. Watching our screencast I thought of some implemenation of Krunner in panels. You could simply click the Krunner icon and type sth in.
GREAT idea, especially have it it configurable.
Future idea: entry effects for it. It would be neat if it could fly in from the side of the screen and end up in the middle. Yes, a very distinct bell and whistle.
I love it!
And I agree with @David!
I like the idea esp. that you can resize it.
I'd prefer dragging around over an options menu. When you place it near the screen edge the slide effect should be used to slide it in when you call it. If it is placed somewhere in the screen center it should blend in as now.
It should be configurable to any screen edge like for example expose efect is and it should be accesible by mouse hitting that edge too. For example my sister can't remember Alt+F2 combination. I don't like small arrow instead of scroll bar - people with bad eyes can't see it and think list of results is complete.
Honestly, I think this sucks. What about all the users having kmenu, task list and stuff on the top?
I like it.
It seems more natural and it make the KRunner window more noticeable. Sometimes, on a very busy desktop, it's a bit difficult to see that the (by default) small KRunner window has appeared, especially with multiple monitors.
However, I agree with the others that the edge where KRunner appears should be configurable. Plasma let's you build "your own desktop" so there would be people who will want it to appear from the bottom, for example. Also, what happens if you have a panel (and maybe Yakuake) on the top of the screen?
I also like hermier's suggestion. I think there could be more use cases for "sliding windows".
Why, o why did you add that configure option. It'll confuse users and clutter the interface.
;)
Like a few people have already said, I think that keeping the run dialog in the middle on the screen is better from a focus standpoint. The majority of the time my focus is *toward* the center of my screen and I try to keep it like that. Also, when the user launches a new app through krunner, it tends to launch in the center of the screen or at least more so than at the top. Then again it may be that I am just conditioned for it to be that way. Just like I have alt+space bound to launch krunner because of how often I use it and find that key binding to be much quicker to execute.
Maybe making the krunner more like a modal dialog (darken the backround) will help the focus.
Why not integrate it with kickoff instead? More discoverable that way, for one thing, and possibly more intuitive. I seem to remember you guys doing some experiments to that end on the netbook version, and I don't see why that couldn't be just as great for the desktop.
@illissius: runners are already integrated with kickoff for kde 4.4.
I like this new approach, even better with the resize thing...
I agree with Pavel about the arrows. They are really hard to see. Maybe using the same arrows of the new add widgets interface of use a scroll bar would help.
I find the new look more beautiful but I think that showing it centered is better because its more easily found, taking into account that you don't interact with any element of the screen to launch it but you need to use access keys, so it appears from nowhere.
If it were launched when touching an screen edge with the mouse, it would make much sense the new way you propose, but it would probably conflict with autohiding panels, etc, so the border should be configurable.
I would add it as an option, and modify the floating window mode so it's always on top by default, or it goes away when it lose focus.
what about just using the mouse gesture. I do not like to type al+f2
Isuggested an idea to kde brainstorm too
http://forum.kde.org/brainstorm.php#idea62447
what about just using the mouse gesture. I do not like to type al+f2
Isuggested an idea to kde brainstorm too
http://forum.kde.org/brainstorm.php#idea62447
@illisuis
you can install "run command" plasmoid and put it into the panel, something like this: http://imagebin.ca/view/Gx-m-Qo.html
I agree with @Hans about the center-focus. The edges of the screen belong to passive elements like scrollbars and panels, and the center belongs to active things like Konqueror contents and KRunner.
If you want to avoid KRunner disappearing, do it like the dashboard: dim the rest of the screen and make it disappear with focus. Nobody has an opened KRunner in the background.
Looks very interesting. It would be nicer if had integration with google desktop index server.
Like many others, I like it as well-- thanks!
When using a top-screen panel like I do, I think this would be most awesome if the runner slid down from the bottom of the panel, instead of the screen edge. Don't know if this would be a major challenge from a code perspective, though.
I love like it looks. I already use yakuake all the time which operates the same way. The nice thing about the sliding in, that it feels less in the way of other windows. Will be automatically appear on top of other windows present?
Very nice. The User Interface tab of the configuration could perhaps use some spacing between the options. They kind of meld together right now.
How about adding an icon I can put in the panel and let the runner slide out of the panel? Think of the Spotlight icon in the OS X menubar. That would also help discoverability, new users are unlikely to know about Alt-F2.
If what you are looking for is make krunner stand over other windows, then make the whole desktop dim. Just like with "widget dashboard".
This is very nice!
So far I have moved the KRunner to middle and top of the screen, to right corner and to bottom right next to panel.
So I say as well, we need configuration to attach the KRunner to specific side of screen. It could be "Floated" or "Integrated" mode and the "Floated" works like now. But the "Integrated" would be set like Amarok or Konversation notification bubble what you drag around the screen side or center "cross lines". So we would not need more then two options and not option to every corners/sides.
And then of course possibility to slide the KRunner top of the panel so it would look it is from it. So it would be embedded but top of it, not inside of the panel. I remember there would be widgets what brings the KRunner inside of panel but this is not it.
And someone talked about Spotlight kind widget, it would be nice as well if panel just allows animations.
And I have not seen animation, but it could be slower one, but for some people it should be possible be a instant function. I would take the animated one.
The resize possibility is just marvelous! I have waited to see more than few possiblities.
And someone asked why the arrows do not work but only scroll the history. They work, but you need to press first tab so the focus is on the results and not on the text box. I would say it is logical and I use lots arrows to select last commands and sometimes arrows to browse results. Same way you can use tab and shift+tab to select listed results.
ps. personally I have changed the Alt+F2 shortcut tu Alt+Space what makes it easy to get shown.
Is Krunner a plasma widget? Then, could this concept be extended to other widgets as well?
My idea would be the following:
- drag any widget partly over the screen edge
- this widgets becomes recognized as a "screen edge widget"
- activate (slide out) by using shortcut key.
- alternatively, activate by holding mouse pointer at screen edge.
As a yakuake fan, I really like the idea. However, I'm not certain about it as the default option.
Besides that, KRunner is a great tool and IMHO there should be a first-run notification or something like this to tell new users that ALT+F2 calls KRunner.
Krunner springs to life in exactly the same state every time I call it, and I use it and nothing else while it is open. I therefore want it front and center while I'm using it, but am content to have it appear and disappear like magic.
Binding something to a screen edge makes sense to me when the continuity or persistence of the task means that I want a 'place' to find it.
@SmrtSkoso
the default showing of 'recently used' commands will be utmost useful - as you don't need to type again and you can see what programs you have used earlier.
@aseigo
By default krunner shows recently used programs when no search term is entered. Not only will this increase the dimensions of krunner thus aiding in visibility of krunner application and quick list of applications used recently
My feedback:
1.) I agree with the ones who think that it should be configurable where KRunner pops up. Just use the same config style as the "active corners" tab in System Settings -> Desktop.
2.) I'm also one of the ones who'd still prefer KRunner free floating, so I'd like to see that mode be the default.
3.) I'm also agreeing with the comment that the current KRunner window is sometimes easy to miss. A visual feedback would be nice. Maybe like in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-826jwXsWM (skip to 2m15s)
4.) If KRunner under 4.4 still can't be used just with the keyboard (typing "kde" and then select an entry just with the up and down keys), you should take care about that as well, when you're at KRunner anyway.
"4.) If KRunner under 4.4 still can't be used just with the keyboard (typing "kde" and then select an entry just with the up and down keys), you should take care about that as well, when you're at KRunner anyway."
Currently you need to press tab to get results window and then you can use arrow keys to do selection. But you can do it easily now already just by pressing tab and shift+tab back.
But it could be done so that if user has not typed anything, the arrow keys would browse history of commands.
When user has typed something and there is results shown, the arrow keys would browse the results.
But there is the problem that the arrowkeys should also allow user to browse history when he/she has typed something. So ain't the current what the most logical one?
And I do not like the idea to have most/last used entries on KRunner because it makes it much bigger by start and not clean and simple. At least not by default if such feature someday will come.
And if user has the KRunner top of the screen, it would be then much bigger. When user would place the Krunner somewhere else, what would happend? What direction the list would go then?
I love it! It is nice improvement :-) KDE 4.4 will be a great release :-D
Excellent idea!
Excellent option!
I use yakuake daily, and love the gamer feel of slide in, quick bang! actionable controls (vi on graphical steroids).
And a configurable user space is important to me, so a vote for sliding in from anyside and maybe placeable (use will tell where i like it most ;).
Just marthoned through the Jargon post, wow, interesting debate and really shows how people can get a little myopic on their 'needs' to abasing others for even contemplating change.
To all KDE DEVs, Please improve my workflow. You've done an excellent job so far! (The nail hurt my fist until you gave me the hammer =).
I thought this would be a perfect bikeshed subject and seeing the number of comments, that seems to be the case ;) Anyway, I didn't read all of them, but what I hope you retained from the original krunner is a particular feature concerning dual monitor setup (xinerama).
I discovered krunner always pops up on the monitor your cursor is on (and most of the time, the app then also starts on that screen). This is very handy when I switched the input of one monitor to, for example, TV input, so I don't have 'access' to my computer there.
Is this still possible? thanks
Verry good idea !!!
I love KRunner like this !
Hi There,
In general, I like the look of it.
A related suggestion: How about a Krunner widget?
Essentially, I'm asking for an option to "pin" Krunner permanently to the desktop.
This would aid in discoverability of Krunner, and also serves as an alternative program launch tool.
(I may have suggested this on KDE Brainstorm, can't remember now and too busy to do it now.)
Cheers!
This way it makes more sense to me. Really nice insight that Krunner is not a 'application' itself but a loader for others!
How well does it work with Yakuake, Aaron?
Dmitriy expressed concern about this, but in your screencast you say that Yakuake was your inspiration and that you use it. I couldn't really tell from Yakuake's brief flash on the screen.
I agree with the commenters who say that a bottom position would be good, but you need to account for scenarios where krunner and a panel are both on the scame screen edge.
Someone else commented that it would be nice if krunner grew out of the panel, and I agree. Perhaps we could have a krunner button on the panel? This might be a good way to introduce krunner to users who aren't aware of what lies behind alt+F2, and also provide a way of invoking krunner on touch-screens or handheld devices.
I would like that except I would prefer to have KRunner as a static addition to my desktop in someway. Maybe encapsulated in a widget that I can put anywhere and leave it staying on the screen. I don't like that it disappears everytime I hit enter. If it was in a widget then I could do with it as I do with any other widget including the functionality you show i think.
Mr Johnathan Bravo
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