Warning!!! This post has nothing to do with KDE or technology. It's full of thoughts on personal freedom and other soft, gooey, social type stuff. Feel free to skip this entry if that's not your cup of tea. =)
The more people you know, the greater the odds are that you are going to know someone who is a complete jerk about things. It's a numbers game, really. So when you meet thousands of people a year and even more track you down on-line, it's pretty much guaranteed that such people will find you without you having to do much work at all. ;)
Every so often someone with a real crank on will start following me around the intarwebs posting their hallowed viewpoint on me. It seems to happen to everyone with an even moderately public profile. Usually they get stuck on one message and then post it consistently everywhere they can as some sort of therapeutic outpouring of their inner angst. Most people don't last more than a couple weeks at this, though I've had a couple of people with real commitment dog me for a year or more. It's annoying, but part of life. I have worked hard on being able to accept it, and then move on. I'm still working on it, but getting better at it over time.
I do make a somewhat easy target: besides being somewhat visible, I wear my heart on my sleeve and my mind on my .. uhm .. lapel (I guess that's where it would be if the heart is on the sleeve? ;). I don't often pull punches when it comes to what my thoughts are, and sometimes I'm actually *gasp* wrong. I spend a lot of time formulating my thoughts, so it's not a completely unearned allowance and I do try to keep my non-wrongness ratio high enough to remain respectable. Still .. I give the Angry People ample ammunition. Again, it's part of my life. I strive to accept it, and move on.
I do have one small personal policy, though: if you want to be irrational and stupid, do it somewhere other than my personal space. You can shout whatever you want from the hilltops if you wish, but you don't get to do it in my living room, my office, my blog or my inbox. I love debating and feeling out ideas and arguments that I don't agree with, but I don't have time for pointlessness.
(I have some books on my bookshelf that I utterly hate. Some of them are liberally sprinkled with notes in their margins expressing my counter-points to the author's positions. I think challenging one's self by assessing other viewpoints is important.)
So here's the $64,000 question of the day: is it censorship to delete comments from my blog that fall into the "pointless flame" category? Here's my answer:
No it's not. Censorship is when you go around removing things that are objectionable. I certainly don't hold with that concept, and so there's a lot of comments in my blog that I find quite objectionable, but objectionable material is often just another way of saying, "Ideas that run counter to my own thoughts that are expressed in a rather aggressive or even just uncomfortably open way."
When it comes to my personal space, and this blog is such a space, I'm not obliged to give people a soapbox for worthless and poorly intentioned shouting. That is part of my personal liberty, and is mirrored by your liberty as well: I do not expect you to grant me extraordinary privileges in your personal space, either.
As US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. once described the harm principle, which places a natural limit on our liberty, "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins." If you wish to disagree with my right to not let you swing your fist into my face, you can swing your fist at me from a distance in your own personal space in a show of great protest. See how it works?
Shared private spaces, such as planetkde.org or dot.kde.org, have the right to similar controls. Censorship must be avoided but filtering out vandalism is completely within the rights of the group whose private space it is.
The danger in putting limits of expression in shared private spaces is that the tyranny of the majority, something John Stuart Mill wrote about in "On Liberty" some 150 years ago, can all too easily set in. It is therefore vital for a community to come to a shared understanding, before crisis arrives, as to what the difference between vandalism of the shared space and merely objectionable expression is, and to ensure that that definition is conservative enough and respectful enough of future minority positions to avoid ever being twisted into simple censorship, especially censorship of convenience. (As in: "it's inconvenient to address that issue openly.")
In public spaces, which are by definition also shared, there is no room for managing content or expression outside of some very extreme situations (e.g. incitement to violence, or the "clear and present danger" principle might be one such situation; though even that needs to be treated extremely carefully). This is a fundamental difference between public and private (or personal) spaces, and is vital to preserving freedom in a society. Tyranny must not be allowed to find its way into either government or society's various majorities, and well protected public spaces are part of the solution.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who apparently don't quite understand how personal freedom and liberty works in a society with more than one person in it, or lack the ability to accurately discern the difference between a private and a public space. Some will try and raise the specter of censorship just because you won't let them verbally punch you in the face in your own home. There are public spaces for such behavior, though be aware that I'm not required to show up to participate. (An amazing natural answer to curtailing abuse!) In that public space the merit of your position can be weighed by one and all.
Alternatively one can raise the value of their input from worthless to objectionable (which has value, though retaining the dissident nature of the original content) and find private spaces opening up to your expression.
Why all this blathering about liberty and what not? This morning I deleted the same comment three times from my blog and ended up turning on moderation controls (temporarily, I hope) to manage the goofball who apparently feels it's their natural right to say anything they want in my space. I decided to spend my lunch time writing this entry as a (very small and not nearly as well thought out as it should be) bit of documentation as to how I feel these concepts work in a rational world. Freedom is very important to me, and I want to make it clear just where those weighty, and often difficult, lines exist for me.
Feel free to post your objectionable comments below; apologies for the moderation delay in advance. =/ However, I do understand that there is no moderation delay at all when you post on your own blog. ;)
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
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25 comments:
If that is what you thing then Im in my liberty to kindly ask you to keep all your personal blog topics out of planetkde.
Since looks like you are using it to get more readers about your personal view point ans about your personal stuff that has nothing to do with KDE.
You love to have readers, I can see that, and you love to have "fans" I also can see that, but keep the personal blogs out of planetkde, some of us are not interested in that.
So please deside, be a developer or a journalist.
I use moderation on my blog, with the exception of trusted commenters who need to be TypeKey or OpenID registered. Because my blog has a religious focus, I need to filter out people spouting the same old offensive crap over and over again, which is liberally repeated on numerous other websites anyway - it's basically hate spam. I don't see anything wrong with people moderating to keep their blogs on topic and readable; after all, freedom of speech doesn't mean obligation of speech, or obligation on each individual to facilitate others' speech, and if anyone wants to hate, they can get their own blog.
Yep, talk about freedom and stuff so you look white and fluffy, and don't give readers a chance to know what you are really talking about (like what exactly those goofballs post).
@ramsees: "kindly ask you to keep all your personal blog topics out of planetkde."
you can certainly request that, and my answer to your request is, "i'll keep doing what i do, thanks."
"keep the personal blogs out of planetkde, some of us are not interested in that."
and many others are. i regularly get emails from people noting that they enjoy the mix of content.
i keep my blog entries pretty technical and focused on kde in general, but i'll continue to write what i want in it. my planetkde co-authors can decide what's acceptable.
my recommendation is that if you find them objectionable, skip the personal ones. i put a disclaimer at the top of this entry for a reason; and yet .. you evidently didn't heed it.
which leads me to believe that your comment is not particularly genuine in nature. why read something you don't find interesting when there's even a warning right at the start? hum.
@indigojo_uk: yep, that's pretty much exactly it.
@muntyan: "Yep, talk about freedom and stuff so you look white and fluffy, and don't give readers a chance to know what you are really talking about (like what exactly those goofballs post)."
just so everyone here understands muntyan clearly: muntyan was the goofball this morning.
as for not giving readers a chance to know what you were talking about, muntyan, well .. you evidently didn't understand anything in this blog entry. let me make it clear for you:
you can post whatever you want in your own space (or the space of whomever will grant you the affordance), but you are not welcome to use mine for your spittle. that may be frustrating for you, but you tend to get what you give.
now if i happen to come out looking all "white and fluffy" from this blog entry, perhaps that's because i've taken a defensible and reasonable position. think about it.
@Ramsees: I happen to think a personal blog now and then isn't too bad, as long as most of the blogs are technical. I mean, there's 'some guy' (Hi Ariya!) who often posts about food, well, maybe those should be filtered out by category, but hey he doesn't blog daily...
Anyway, on to the topic of the post. I knew the phrase about the fist & nose, and I wholeheartedly agree. Freedom is, in a sense, a paradox - total freedom for ALL is not possible. And I think moderating a blog is sad if it has to be done, but certainly within one's rights - it IS your space, after all.
Oh, and Aaron, I know teddybear is reserved for Sebas, but you sure are fluffy - next time we'll meet I owe you a hug. Just to prove it.
It's ok if you deside to keep posting personal blogs,I just wont read those. It just like an advice, becuase I can see you are pretty sensitive person, specially when someone disagrees with your opinion or simply signal some bad behavior or error of your side you are often defensive, like if you couln't take not being accepted in some kind of way.
Just take this in mind,you are the president of the KDE foundation, what ever you say or act can be interpreted as the opinion of the entire project (sad but true).
Im sure if you weren't part of this project you wouln't be "hunted" like you say you are.
A very thoughtful post. I like the way that KDE is a very open community, criticizes it's self and allows criticism from outside but manages also to hold together, push forward and be clear about it's vision. I think this is a model for the way any large open source project should work.
Perhaps if the title were less confrontational and the first two paragraphs were removed, folks such as [ramsees] might be more receptive... but then probably not.
I like the mix on planetkde.. Mostly technical blogs, but once in a while there's some other stuff. That's fine. Useful content, but enough of a reminder that developers are humans too.
Planet gnome has a very different balance, and I don't like it nearly as much. Some days most posts are unrelated, usually rants about US politics or random vacation pictures, which gets boring fast.
Having an "archive" area for duplicated/misplaced/flamebait comments means that you're just moving them somewhere where they're not going to cause anyone else to get into fist-fights.
Having a "move comment to different post" functionality in blogger would be quite funny, because it would mean that flamers would get email notifications about any and all other flame comments that got moved to the flame-collecting post. I get the feeling that they'd soon learn their lesson that way :P
@jos: i collect hugs whenever and wherever i can get them. you on my list now! ;)
@ramsees: "It's ok if you deside to keep posting personal blogs, I just wont read those."
and that's a result everyone can live with, i think =)
"It just like an advice,"
i appreciate your concern.
"Just take this in mind,you are the president of the KDE foundation, what ever you say or act can be interpreted as the opinion of the entire project (sad but true)."
it should be made utterly clear that i only speak on behalf of (though never "for") the project when serving in an official capacity, such as when presenting "on KDE" at a conference or speaking with a journalist about KDE.
i am not all-KDE-all-the-time; i maintain my own identity outside of that role.
you are correct that there are people who will take a title as an excuse to moderate or condemn either the holder of that title or the title itself. it's not accurate but it happens; thankfully not many people take that kind of stuff seriously.
as such, i'm really not open to the idea of constraining myself in ways i wouldn't normally.
(i wouldn't be here right now if i wasn't who i was in the past, either =)
i think such extreme statements of expectation make it harder for people to feel like they would like to step up and help out with things. i mean, who would *want* to be president of the e.V., which is a lot more about day-to-day management than anything else, if their every move reflected on the project? holy high stakes!
which leads me to realize that i don't agree with the "this has nothing to do with KDE" statement of yours.
i don't plan on doing what i do with/for KDE forever, and i want whomever steps into my shoes to not feel unduly pressured.
i also feel that it is important for a any group of people and organizations that coexisting for a common purpose to discuss these very issues to maintain community health.
many may perceive KDE as a technology project, but like any organization of people it's as much a social animal as it is a technological one.
"Im sure if you weren't part of this project you wouln't be "hunted" like you say you are."
absolutely; if i led a more private life, these things wouldn't be an issue. it's a cost associated with being visible, and of course not unique to myself, this project or F/OSS in general.
at the same time, organizations of this type (depending on external support) and size (larger than small) really benefit from having visibility. so i know i won't be the last kde person who goes through this, and it would be cool if some precedents around these issues can be set =)
@alsuren: oooh.. that's a really good idea. hum hum ... one more reason for me to get onto a self-hosted FOSS blog that i can hack up a bit, because that sounds like a simple yet deliciously clever concept ... =)
I personally think (not that my opinion matters much) that blog posts such as this should be allowed. It gives personality to development and shows the human side of things. I think sometimes people think that machines do the coding, I found myself requesting things that I normally would because I get caught up in everything and forget there's actual people behind the code who are most likely already over worked. I say as long as your blog doesn't become a script for the young and the restless then who cares. Keep it semi technical most of the time and I'm good.
Aaron,
Just wanted to let you know that I enjoy your posts quite a bit. I enjoy the technical ones, but it's the non-technical ones that usually make me think.
I haven't done any sort of analysis, but it seems to me that your technical to non-technical post ratio is probably around 8 to 1 or so. If some people can't skip the one post they find objectionable to read the 8 or so they find acceptable, then maybe they shouldn't be on the internets at all, the ratio overall is much lower overall.
I actually really enjoy some of your "personal" entries. There are some really beautifully-written ones in there!
@myself: "
which leads me to realize that i don't agree with the "this has nothing to do with KDE" statement of yours. "
erg ... that should have been "statement of mine" (refering to my own disclaimer in the blog entry). doh! (apologies to ramsees for getting the direction wrong on that one)
@jmiahman: "young and the restless"
how do you feel about General Hospital? ;)
seriously though .. i agree with the balance you outline there.
Aaron I enjoy your rants, viewpoints and random thoughts, so if moderation means that you keep posting then it's fine by by.
Awesome post and I fully agree on where you drew the lines :)
Ramsees: "If that is what you thing then Im in my liberty to kindly ask you to keep all your personal blog topics out of planetkde."
So, you are basically telling Aaron what he can and can't post on his personal blog?
Um, OK....
Aaron, nice post. But I am a bit surprised that you spend so much time thinking about the moral implications: of course it's totally ok to delete whatever you like in the comment section of your blog. Because it is your blog.
Sure, it's not the best sign for a person if he/she randomly deletes comments, but still, it's their right.
As an example, I try to keep every comment on my blog - but there are some comments which are just there to stress me. And I happily delete those - because my blog has a purpose, and that purpose is to communicate with others and to phrase and share ideas. Hurting comments are not helpful regarding that purpose and can be deleted therefore.
Regarding the planet: that's "just" an aggregator, so no one should care about it. The dot might be a it more difficult, deletion should be done with more care - however, leave the moderation to people who are used to it, who are experts in handling harmful comments and angry writers in public space. There are other who can do that pretty well, so you don't have to bother. :)
And Ramses:
"So please deside, be a developer or a journalist."
That's just bullshit. I myself are actually a paid journalist as well as a paid developer. I don't have to decide to be either one, I can be both. And others can be, too.
Besides, Aaron's post in fact touched the problematic situation of the ever growing KDE community which again attracts more problematic comment posters, so the post is very helpful to other KDE people - and therefore KDE related.
Get a grip, and start thinking.
"i regularly get emails from people noting that they enjoy the mix of content"
That and the quality of them. You really seem to think what you write. Keep on like that!
Aaron,
I always enjoy your posts, and IMO you can say and do whatever the f*$k you want on your blog. It's your space, end of story.
Keep rockin!
We love you Aaron!
UR the whitest fluffiest KDE prez yet. :D
Seriously, thanks for your thoughtful, insightful posts (yes, even those wrong ones!). Never have technology, freedom and philosophy blended so eloquently. Your patience is amazing.
@Liquidat: I agree with everything you say, however I do need to poke fun at this one... "I myself are actually a paid journalist"? Hmmmm....
bugs, argh, what a typo. :D
The whole post sounds a bit like boingboings moderation policy.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/27/boing-boings-moderat.html
I kinda liked the text on that one.
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