i hate complaint lists. they annoy the hell out of me. i love solution lists, though. they are in some sense very similar: they both highlight what's wrong. so what's the difference? one states what's often the bleeding obvious without actually creating progress; a solution list usually adds the benefits of having actionable items, which turns the whole exercise into something interesting and positive.
maybe it's just me. if it isn't, please consider taking your laundry lists of complaints and creating lists of solutions instead if you want me to consider them without getting annoyed. not that you probably care about me getting annoyed, i'm just easier to deal with when i'm not ;-P
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/me wonders if that's a reference to his latest post, and if so, what category it would fall into...
You wouldn't be talking about the "Why KDE4 (might) suck" post, would you? [ insert appropriate smiley here ]
-- Marcel
"/me wonders if that's a reference to his latest post, and if so, what category it would fall into..."
Since you patched a couple of issues yourself - probably "solutions" :)
well, no one should took it directly personal. if it was just one person providing a complaint list on just one topic, i probably wouldn't've blogged about it.
it's just one of those trends right now where complaint lists, rather than solution oriented discussions, are more and more common in the various places i hang out (not all of which i'm directly involved in).
so i figured i'd say something about it. because .. yeah .. they just put me in such a foul mood, which i don't like at all. they just run so very counter to my preferred way of existing that my mental immune system tends to get triggered by them.
Aaron, after read that complaint post, even I, that ain't a KDE developers felt pissed, you, that have spend so many hours on this project probably had a murder desire XD
Is quite understandable, but try to ignore them out next time ;)
Cheers to you Aaron, and all other KDE 4 developers.
Don't blame the complaints on the complainers. Complaints are a signal too you know. It's the art of filtering the obvious from the interesting.
For example: when someone complains about the gas price rising, is it up to the complainer to come up with a solution for it?
Aaron, I agree with you.
I do understand, however, that some open source bloggers need to write about things every once in a while and some of them decide to test KDE4's current status without knowing what is going on and this is what happens.
What I understand less is how people listed on planetkde.org can create such "laundry lists" - especially given that most of what they write has been answered in previous blogs on the planet.
Aaron, I need to add one thing: you are doing an amazing job! I am compiling KDE from time to time and it is progressing so nicely. We are getting a wonderful desktop environment. Everyone I know is simply thrilled. :)
All I can say to this is that people are going to do what people are going to do...despite how annoying it is.
I think that complaint lists can indeed be helpful to an extent, they do let people know what the community thinks, however people should know that rude complaint lists, are just useless and annoying.
As for most of the complaints I've seen, I'm not too worried, KDE4 has made amazing progress from when i started using it 1 month ago to now. It literally became usable overnight for me. Yes, plasma still has minor issues, but it is much better than what it was in the beginning, if it wasn't, I wouldn't devote the cpu time to updating my kde build every night. KDE4 has made more progress in this one month than other major projects have in a year (can we say ubuntu anyone?)
People need to learn to look at bugs and think "this will probably be fixed soon" instead of, "wow kde4 sucks because of this and I hate it".
In short: Lighten up people.
@Dennie: i wasn't thinking about consumers. i certainly don't expect consumers to fix gas price issues, but i do expect national politicians, oil&gas execs, etc to do something about it.
@anonymous: "some open source bloggers need to write about things every once in a while"
i understand. the issue is whether one writes it a list of complaints or a list of thoughtful ideas or even questions. the latter does take a bit more effort, but if you can't put effort into it, really ... don't bother.
@Stephen: "people are going to do what people are going to do"
yeah, i have this strange glitch: i believe in the idea that people can change their behaviour based upon their perceived expectations of society upon them.
ergo the metrosexual male, the overly thin woman and the whole concept of manners (and, for that matter, teenage rebelion).
and really, i don't need complaint lists unless they are accompanied by solutions. if someone wants to make a list of complaints and not do anything about it, that's what bugs.kde.org is for. even that is participating towards a solution by giving us something we can start tracking.
writing a laundry list in an email or blog just isn't.
and this isn't just about kde4. maybe i'm sensitive to it right now, but i've seen it in a few areas 'round the free software world in the last couple months. it's like the number of whingers has increased, and that's not a good sign.
if anything, it's a sign we've taken a (hopefully temporary) swing towards "complaining is cool".
let's try and steer it back towards "participation is cool". ;) there will still be as many complaints, but they will become motivators and thought provokers rather than blogfodder.
You are such a bitch! ;)
Jaye
I feel similarly as well.
"let's try and steer it back towards "participation is cool". ;) there will still be as many complaints, but they will become motivators and thought provokers rather than blogfodder."
Well that's the thing. I think that on the essential level there's something wrong with the development process of KDE and I have ideas about how to solve those problems. Bugs.kde.org does not provide me a place to issue that. Nor do I think that I can actually change something about the development process. I'm not involved enough and the community is too big (which, in itself, is a good thing of course). The only thing I could do is write a blog post about it, which obviously won't be read or be seen as a complaint without actually being involved in KDE. That's what others kept telling me: If you want to change something, participate. It disables me from having the guts to post my thoughts on a mailing list, because I know that the people who work 50 hours a week on KDE don't like complaints.
Participating sounds easier than it is. If you have big ideas and the only way to get involved with KDE is to start building patches or write documents... That's not the kind of motivation I need.
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate every bit of work you do for the community. I really think that the involvement of some people is just outstanding.
@Dennie: "I think that on the essential level there's something wrong with the development process of KDE and I have ideas about how to solve those problems."
if you can phrase it in terms of challenges with actual solutions, i'm always open to input. it's just the bitch fests that i don't enjoy.
phrase it thoughtfully with possible avenues for exploration towards solution. that's all i look for.
"Nor do I think that I can actually change something about the development process."
not without being involved, no. but those of us who are involved do listen quite a bit. that's probably why the complaint lists get to me: i'm listening so much that if i end up with 10 complaint lists to every 1 useful bit of feedback, it makes for a really annoying day ;)
" thing I could do is write a blog post about it"
i don't think that's the only thing you can do at all. i have an email address, aseigo at kde dot org, and it's pretty open; why don't you bounce your ideas of me first. we can discuss them, sort them out a bit if it needs it (it may not, perhaps you have a fully formed set of thoughts including solutions), and then you can write your blog post. at that point hopefully there would be enough meat on the bones of it that it won't come across as an empty complaint but as a realistic proposal.
"Participating sounds easier than it is."
not really; it is as easy as it sounds. if it wasn't most people would not get involved.
"If you have big ideas and the only way to get involved with KDE is to start building patches or write documents... That's not the kind of motivation I need."
what sort of motivation do you need? other people willing to do your bidding? that's a serious question; in a project based on participation, what interface works for you?
it's all a bit odd for those of us more used to a consumerist model, but .. yeah =)
Aaron, I came across your blog and just wanted to share my views on KDE4. I've been a Gnome/GTK user for the last 7 or 8 years. I've tried KDE several times between then and found everything very well integrated (way better than Gnome), but at the same time overly complicated. I heard about KDE4 being announced and all the buzz words being thrown around (Plasma, Solid, Oxygen, etc.) and then I took a look at the alphas and saw it as over hyped.
That being said though, I've been using KDE4 via SVN for the last 3 days and I'm amazed. The Kmenu makes launching an application fast an easy. I love the new panel especially the SVG being used right now (which you say is going to change, but I'm hoping it stays. Black and the white/translucent border looks amazing in my book and looks good with every wallpaper combination I've thrown at it. It's not another grey panel :P).
I look at KDE4 in it's current look and feel and compare it to OSX and Vista and see a serious competitor. It's got simplicity, eye candy and WIDGETS! I'm excited for Plasma and I've been messing with C++ trying to get a plasmoid developed. I haven't really developed anything outside of school or work before, but KDE's documentation is making things somewhat bearable.
I wouldn't get frustrated with the critics, you've made a long time Gnome user switch desktop environments without looking back and has gotten him interested in open source development. Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see KDE4!
:D
Hi,
You can write more effective complaints by utilizing resources on the net. www.writecomplaint.com is one of the best sources that I found on the net to write effectife complaints.
Regards
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