"KDE will get a truckload of useless stuff lying on a desktop which will be covered in windows anyway<" - Emmanuel Bassi
not quite. =) you can put these things on a panel, or promote the desktop briefly to a top level widget (think max os x dashboard if you need a visual hint; i have slides that were made before dashboard came out that show this concept, btw). and due to the ability to hook into meaningful data sets like hardware events, tasks and windows, etc... they'll be anything but useless. (particular things like the application launchers ;) though we'll have lots of useless things too because, well, it's fun and easy and life should be full of both of those things. =)
still, Emmanuel does get one of the overarching concepts:
"they will also get the attention of web developers writing small apps integrating with web services in a transparent way, using their own strengths and knowledge, without forcing them to learn the intricacies of a complete platform"
that's one aim. but i'm going even deeper. i mean, why stop at web developers? why not make it easy enough for mere mortals to get engaged and start creating and sharing little toys and tools with each other?
i've worked in a few places that were involved with securities (portfolio management; a stock exchange; an oil and gas trading co) and at one of them they had access to an app from reuters that let you create arrangements of various data feeds on screen and even connect them up. i noticed traders that were good at creating these setups would get tapped by others to help them create killer layouts. interesting what happens when you empower individuals to create things in simple ways out of complex building blocks.
in that same office there was one girl who made her entire (ms windows) desktop pink. from media player to soft phone to window dtitle bars and widgets to backgrounds ... she was as pink-a-holic. she got a pink (barbi!) computer for home, too, and then replicated that setup there. imagine if she could have created her strange little pink fetishist design and then shared it to her new barbilicious computer at home? or with her similarly pink obsessed best friend?
back to the web, social networking in various forms has hit all over the net. from online gaming to microblogging to virtual business card trading to .... you name it. that's the power of these sites. for every person i hear talking about online word processors, i hear 100s (literally) talking about things like facebook.
so yeah, bring on the web developers. but let's also give users the ability to move, manipulate and share their personal peculiar experience with their friends, family and coworkers. imagine picking from an online warehouse, where you can share with your friends and associates or people with similar interests and values.
i can just see the pink desktop category now.
and even that is just the beginning ... that reuters display? it was a custom app that reuters invests a lot of money in. it's fugly beyond fugly and the real value is the data. think about the possibilities.
and let's not forget more traditional cool uses like getting rid of the "new media found" dialog and replacing it with a little slider that moves out of the side of the screen (the start of that plasmoid is already in svn) or having a timestrip that marches across in time to the clock showing your calendar schedule as well as providing ad-hoc time management (by dropping items on it at given times). or live icons. or ...
"The curve for contributing to the platform is still too steep; and you don’t even get to use your own knowledges: you have to learn everything from scratch. KDE core developers understood this before we did, and their move might keep KDE from falling into the irrelevancy of geek-only usage" - Emmanuel
i not only want to help us from falling into irrelevancy, i want kde to become a new hotness that people want to use with an aching in their soul because they can share their pink horrorshow or financial-instruments-n-news ticker line up or create a cute little birthday card plasmoid to send to mom as a nice surprise for her.
i'm really glad to see that the gnome people are thinking about these things, too. we in the free software desktop community all need to. but let's try to not get myopic about it and concentrate on the current cool kid implementation (web 2.0 stuff) while missing the real lessons (e.g. what makes web 2.0 cool). let's not aim for yet another subset of humanity (web developers) while forgetting about the other 98% of people.
and while these are the things that haunt my mind in the night and guide my hands in designing plasma, i'm not the only one on this train in kde. i know the korganizer guys (cornelius in particular) have had similar long term goals for a while now; the games with ggz; the pervasive use of ghns (which we need to expose better, btw); marble and its slurping in of external data files ...
now, someone on Emmanuel's blog said this:
"How about making a freedesktop spec out of plasma and implementing it under gnome. Or better, implement something plasma-compatible in gnome and then create the spec." - anonim
their heart is in the right place, but it's not realistic (and Emmanuel notes that in his reply). but there are places we can and, imho, should be aligning with each other.
one example? openid. kde4 already has support for openid in a few places, including gethotnewstuff2 and an implementation in our libs that other apps can run with. (thanks to josef spillner; there's a guy who really gets a lot of this stuff, btw. we're lucky to have him around hacking on these things for kde =)
i plan to offer a way for people to associate their existing openid account, or create a new one, right from plasma via the first log-in plasmoid that will appear on the desktop (artists are working on layout for that bad boy right now).
this is one way for us to claim a stake in the brave new online world. we can spread it to other platforms with our cross-platform apps and encourage our own web services, as well as those of others who are open source friendly, to adopt it as well.
so... what say ye our friends at gnome, xfce, firefox, et al? can we join hands and push forward on the same online identification system? we don't have to formally agree or even coordinate the specifics... we just have to all start using it where it makes sense and telling our users about it.

10 comments:
Great that you mentioned the Reuters applications. Hopefully in the near future there will also be some plasmoids like stock ticker or charts. I guess the most difficult thing will be the data engine. Thanks for all the hard work und keep motivating all kde people!
I just want a kde app or plasmalet that gives me a gkrellm replacement that can be easily clicked to the top (from the taskbar or another upper level item) to see what the hell is going on the system.
all kde apps that clone gkrellm are either dead and ugly or not easy to configure (editing scripts isnt easy)
i saw your work on making this stuff easier to make and i hope to see a gkrellm replacement or frontend (gkrellmd)
@anonymous mark II: "i hope to see a gkrellm replacement or frontend (gkrellmd)"
between solid and ksysguard we have all th e pieces to do this now. both have data engines and ksysguard's plots are likely to be ported to qgraphicsview.
huzzah!
You rock.
Yes, openid, awesome!
I'm working on pushing it into my environment as much as possible (a university) and would love to see this.
Anyone else who reads this, add my plea to Aaron's for better openID support on the free software desktop.
Although I really appreciate all the work on KDE4 and plasma and am one of those that markets KDE wherever possible to friends and staff at the Uni I would like to say something which I know might sound a bit pessimistic and annoying on top of that:
Yet before KDE actually gets into oraganisations at large scale (according to the akademy 2007 talk) and not "just" on the private desktop, KDE has to solve issues that Gnome seems to take more seriously, such as centralised administration (actively developed as "sabayon" in case of Gnome) and configuration storing (as part of Gnome's [yet to be realised] online desktop).
According to the speech on thin-clients at akademy, if the latter two work better in Gnome a company will pick Gnome no matter how shiny and useful KDE is to the individual in customising its desktop or contributing to it. Before those things can eventually become useful to the user KDE has to be put on the offices' computers.
I read on dot.kde.org that Sebastian Kügler stated that freedesktop needs 10% of market share to become non-ignorable to manufacturers. I guess we want KDE to take the bigger share. Large scale roll-outs in companies will get us closer to the 10% market-share and be a lot more relevant to manufactuerers then private users.
In that sense: "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam." until KDE is the desktop of choice even for people who do not care about anything but central administration.
Your masterplan of enabling mere mortals to make applets reminds me of a thing I once read. The article at http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/#designing_a_design_tool proposes a tool to graphically create user interfaces -- and I think it's finally feasible with Plasma. The whole paper is very insightful and worth reading, even if it is longish.
@Sven: if compares what what Sabayon is actually capable of, what Kiosk is capable of why KDE keeps getting large corporate and government accounts.
Helio's talk was pretty (and purposefully) pessimistic on a number of points, and I think to the point of sensationalism. he has been working on LDAP based configuration systems for KDE (which work with his patches).
in any case, while we can certainly do better we're already beyond what gnome offers through sabayon but quite some ways.
there's documentation online about kiosk that i'd recommend checking out =)
If I understood correctly it was not even certain that KIOSK would be ported to KDE4. That sounds bad!
As I mentioned sabayon is developed actively and while still young this means that it can grow beyond KIOSK.
On techbase there is a link to the kiosk-site: http://extragear.kde.org/apps/kiosktool/:
Status
Release Date Version 0.9: 15.09.2004
Helio did not sound as if there was no need for development.
But even if Gnome was not ready (yet), KDE competes with windows' tools, so how do they compare?
@Sven: sabayon still can't do what kiosk can, and that's probably part of why there's less work on kiosk and more on sabayon.
what's really needed is centralized network management tools. sabayon doesn't provide that either, though zenworks starts to get a lot closer.
and there's where we falter compared to tools available for windows.
helio's work on getting kde settings into ldap is a huge step forward there as then we can start to build tools around ldap and integrate with things like samba.
@Sven: ah, i should also mention that kiosktool is a gui front end for only a subset of the functionality in kiosk.
we also have bridges between kiosk and our application configuration guis that are pretty slick =)
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