a couple weeks ago i'd just about had it with the constant harrasment about plasma-this and plasma-that. it drove my moral right into the ground, to be honest, and unfortunately i don't have too many crutches in the form of people available for when my legs give out. which is probably 100% my own fault, but hey .. it is at is.
it all came to a head after a really annoying conversation on irc where i asked the most annoying of fellows to stop discussing why i shouldn't be surprised at the state of things and just suck it up. unfortunately, the conversation just kept going. i got really frustrated and ended up not on irc for the next 10 days or so.
instead i busied myself with other things that kde needed from me. i also spent a few nights out partying perhaps a bit harder than is good for my internal organs. eventually i got over it.
not, i'm sure, that many of you care ;)
so here's something you may care about: as of now, plasma sets itself as the desktop layer, sets up a graphicsview canvas and paints a desktop background. DataEngine, DataSource and DataVisualization work now. what the heck does that mean?
well, there is a cute little svg clock that is a DataVisualization which tells plasma it needs the Time engine. plasma loads the Time engine plugin and the Time engine starts feeding the clock .. well .. the time and date. the clock displays what it gets.
what's neat is that this is all quite generic. you can connect any DataSource to any DataVisualization, all you need to know is what Engine provides it and what the name of the Source is. and for the latter you can get a list of them from a given Engine.
there's more API needed still, but it generally works. which is to say, you can now tell the time and look at something nicer than a black or grey background using plasma.
i posted a list of about a dozen or so "next steps" to the panel-devel list. assuming that this start is enough to make people shut the hell up and leave me alone so i can enjoy breathing again, i'm feeling pretty good with how things went the last over day or two of coding and figure that i can keep this pace up for a good while now.
wait ... what, no screenshots? nope, not tonight. =:P
before i finish this blog entry out, in my last entry (written whilst coming off a night of partying =) i mentioned cool stuff to talk about at akademy. someone posted a comment asking me not to leave everyone hanging. fair enough.
i've been recently (as in "over the last 2 months or so") working with a group of people to bring a full fledged, kick ass, "just works" media center suite into kde. we're working off a proven code base; 'proven' as in 'you can find it on commercially available consumer electronic devices'.
this is completely different to (and complimentary with, imho) amarok, kaffine, etc. some of the stuff it can do is just crazy ranging from integration with telephony, controling HD TVs (in ways that puts vista mce to shame), sweet eye candy 10' interface and cool hardware gadgets like a wii-like motion-control remote. this won't, obviously, make it into 4.0 given where we are in the release cycle and the amount of integration work left ahead, but there's already a proof-of-concept of this integration target based on kde 3.5 and kubuntu feisty and we'll be working to provide it as an easy to get/integrate add-on for 4.0. the proof-of-concept will be publicly available as a downloadable customized kubuntu iso soon.
and that's really just the start of it. i don't want to steal too much of the thunder that'll be in the weeks to come, but i think that this could be a huge deal for post-4.0 kde. besides being cool technology, it will also be bringing financial investment, new partnerships with name brand companies and give us an extra boost when trying to break into the early majority band of user adoption.
at akademy i'll definitely be talking more about this in detail. until then, there you go: cool media center stuff is coming.
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40 comments:
Hi Aaron,
Great to see that you're back on top :)
This media center software thingy seems cool. Are we talking about a full fledged media center application able to compete with MythTV, Freevo, XBMC (on xbox) and so on?
The plasma-clock is great.
Keep up the good work!!
Kudos on the amazing Plasma work Aaron. Just remember, some of us realise you know what you're doing and Plasma will come when it's ready.
I can't wait to hear more about that media centre too.
> Are we talking about a full
> fledged media center application
yes.
> MythTV, Freevo, XBMC
better than all three, imo.
hi Aaron,
of course we care about you and your work. For me as a newbe you helped me feel welcome in the world of kde and I really want to thank you for that.
So thanks and keep up the good work :-)
>> Are we talking about a full
>> fledged media center application
>yes.
> MythTV, Freevo, XBMC
>better than all three, imo.
Sounds almost too good to be true :D
Any place to get involved/get more information about this? I guess you could call me a power user of such software, so I'd like to help make it as kick ass as it can be :)
I think the media center in question is LinuxMCE, at least they're telling about the same story and are also mentioning Aaron: http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/Version_1_1
@bsander: yes, that's the software. there's a good amount of work to do to reach the integration we want with the desktop, as linuxmce was originaly designed for more highly controlled environments (e.g. set top boxes and phone sets where the os is there only for the media center to use/abuse and you know what the hardware is on shipping day). but it's a great piece of technology as is, and i think it'll make a great addition to kde when it's all said and done.
when the iso's are realeased in about a week, please feel free to get involved there.
over the next months we'll start moving pieces of the software into kde's svn, identifying and removing technology redundancies between kde and the desktop variety of linuxmce (e.g. using (a patched) sdl for painting seems a bit unnecessary given what qt4 can do now), etc.... there'll be lots to do then as well =)
I'd like to side with the silent majority here. As Adam Wood said, there is a lot of people following kde4 development that respect and appreciate the amazing job you (and, for that matters, the rest of the kde devs) have already put into what has become the best computer desktop (kde3), and what is to be the basis for exciting innovations to come in the future (kde4). Just keep in mind that the lot of people who gets it just nods and smile every time we read some info about the development. Try not getting so worked up with dot commenters and whatnot, or you'll end up depressed again.
And some of us do care about your pary nights, I like to know the people behind my desktop know how to make it fun :) .
What do you mean with "sweet eye candy 10"? You're not using DirectX, are you?
Anyway, great news!
Hi aaron.
I'm like many people interest by plasma news and allways read your blog to look for news. I understand you are tired of this question but understand us. :)
And for linuxMCE i've saw some days ago the video from google video and i was amaze, but think about giving the possibility to use it as a separate apps wich would just run as amarok or else. Something i launch on my daily computer to use it as a media player.
'What do you mean with "sweet eye candy 10"?'
you missed part of the phrase: "10' interface", or "ten foot interface". it refers to interfaces designed to be used from a distance (like a television) rather than close up (like a traditional computer)
Ah ok, I didn't know that. Thx
aaron, i'm sure many people care about you, you are one of the driving forces behind kde, and developing something big and hipped as plasma, is a hard task, specialy if you have so many other things todo. personaly i find it more important that the other core techonlogies suceed than plasma, but i'm even more happy since i know that the others (solid, phonon..) work great and now plasma is back on track too. :-)
Da-aaash it! I wish, Aaron, that you were closer so we could have a whiskey&curses evening over this kind of stuff! Anyway... Anytime you find yourself in the vicinity, my door is open for you.
Boudewijn
perhaps time-based releases would be a good idea for the post-4.0 releases, just for the sake of taking some heat off the devs. maybe if people know when a release is coming, and what it is going to include, they stop the most excessive whining.
there are problems with this also, of course: what happens when a release is postponed or a feature doesn't make the deadline. I think in some ways that a lot of people has learned some about time-based releases from ubuntu, and therefor would be a bit more understanding to that kind of process.
anyways, keep up the good work, i have faith in the kde-team.
ubuntu is a distro; their job is primarily integrating released pieces of software. this is a very different process from writing said software. very few projects have such time based releases (which is different that schedules, release frequency goals, constant/regular integration, etc)
and i'm really not a fan of adjusting technical mechanisms in response to random whinging.
The problem with plasma is that it's an anti-concept. Moreover, it's the standard desktop metaphor, with all the measurements omitted. It's super-superkramba -- which means...? No definitions given, no firmness in concepts. The concept of "plasma" cannot stand on its own.
Look at phonon and solid. Both of these projects have firm definitions as to what, exactly, their purposes are. They explain "why" and "how." Reading their brief descriptions once is sufficient to firmly grasp their existence. Plasma, on the other hand, does not. Whereas solid and phonon are firmly implemented right now, plasma is still busy defining generalities as-if they're specifics.
"it's the standard desktop metaphor,"
which is?
"with all the measurements omitted."
which are?
"No definitions given, no firmness in concepts."
you're inccorectly conflating a purpose specific API with a rich interface interactive application. solid and phonon on their own are APIs for specific things; plasma is an application for a specific thing. it just happens to allow a rather high level of customization and programmability.
"Plasma, on the other hand, does not. Whereas solid and phonon are firmly implemented right now, "
again, a bit of a very irrelevant comparison, but on the surface of it: yes. solid/phonon are 'complete' enough for release, plasma is still in development. that would be observing the obvious ("the sky is full of clouds.")
"plasma is still busy defining generalities as-if they're specifics."
hm. see, i perceive it as defining generalities as if they are generalities of a specific nature.
and yes, i get it that these concepts are harder to communicate and harder to grok (e.g they require a decent grasp of design concepts and a working creative mind) than something with simple functionality constraints such as "provide a hardware awareness api".
that doesn't explain the endless kvetching people have done about plasma. and if they are all really that concerned because they don't understand it, then let me humbly suggest: stop worrying about it. you aren't going to fix it anyways, so why bother demotivating those who might.
you know, besides ignorance and selfishness.
Hi Aaron,
Plasma is a "great thing" and as all the revolutionary things requires time. So congratulations for having this started and starting working, the rest will surely come soon!
Many thanks to all the plasma team!
Part of me thinks all the whining over Plasma is your own fault - Plasma was insanely over-hyped when it was first announced and people were expecting progress to be started immediately rather than put off for so long.
Still, I know how frustrating it can be to repeatedly answer the same question over and over again and keep being ignored. I really hope you can just ignore them and focus on the supporting comments you get, because I really think Plasma is going to be great when it is finished. Keep up the good work.
Maybe it was overhyped, but when one has a great idea he wants to tell. :)
yeah, Plasma is going to be awesome!!!!!!! go Aaron!!!!!
I just got through catching up on about 3 weeks' worth of rss, so I got to see all the plasma-trolls on the dot in concentrated form. I was kinda concerned about how you'd take it - it's so hard to deal with such criticism. nice to see you're still doing great things :) just remember that for every noisy twit on the dot there's at least a dozen silent people that appreciate the amazing amount of work that's gone into kde4...
Hey Aaron,
I am wondering what kind of integration is planed between kde and linuxmce.
You mentioned Qt4 for painting. Will linuxmce use phonon in the (midterm) future instead of xine? What about decibel for the planed IM/ VoIP integration?
Thx for your great work!
Hi Aaron,
Will linuxmce be like a library or a standalone app?
I appreciate the way kde is shaping
Thx
@martin
"I am wondering what kind of integration is planed between kde and linuxmce."
we want it to become an optional part of the plasma workspace for kde4, such that it would appear fairly seamless.
we're still working on exactly that would mean. for instance, from the plasma side it might mean adding a new form factor (TenFoot) for plasmoids so they can be displayed properly in media center mode.
"You mentioned Qt4 for painting. Will linuxmce use phonon in the (midterm) future instead of xine? What about decibel for the planed IM/ VoIP integration?"
we're researching this stuff now. i think solid is a good possibility, as they use HAL right now and Solid would take away some of that pain for sure. it's not completely straightforward as they have their legacy code base as well as the need to support various devices.
@landolsi
"Will linuxmce be like a library or a standalone app?"
a standalone app that integrates with plasma, and vice versa. it is already pluggable and extensible as is, and adding plasma integration will likely just boost that. so there are APIs now and will be more in the future for extending it; as for using it as a part of someone else's app, i'm not sure how that would work out particularly..
How about supporting cairo-clock themes? I believe they are SVG.
Hi Aaron!
I hope the trolls will stop pestering you now. You are a very awesome person and it bothers me lots that people would whine to you like they do.
As a token of esteem, I vow to turn KEyes into a plasmoid the moment the API for writing those is publicly available (and accessible through Kross). :D Or even earlier, actually, if a simple real world example would help you refine the API.
Thanks again for all the excellent things you are doing with KDE, Aaron. :)
-- S.
I saw the linuxmce video only a few weeks ago so I also had to think immediately about it when reading this post, but I didn't know yet about the KDE integration in 1.1 (/me subscribing to news feed now.. ;)). that's great news indeed!
Nice to have you back ;)
@schalken
"How about supporting cairo-clock themes"
cairo-clock does theming by loading 12 different svg files for the various graphical bits. we take a completely different and, imho, much more sane approach of one clock with well known names for the clock parts. this means we load one file off disk (the slowest part during start up) and the artist can see their complete work of art while working on it.
so ... we could support cairo-clock themes but that would only get us a dozen or so more themes, complicate the code and adopt a pretty awful theming system.
@balinares
"I vow to turn KEyes into a plasmoid"
awesome! =) i wouldn't be surprised if we were there by next week, to be honest.
Ugh! I'm sorry to hear about all the trolls pestering you :(
I don't understand why people are doing it. Do they really think it will help?!
Anyway, just wanted to mention how much I appreciate all your work on KDE. You and all the other developers are doing amazing things! Beers are on me if you happen to visit Denmark someday or we meet somewhere else :)
Ps. That mediacenter thing sounds really cool too!
I don't know if you will read this, but, I have to tell you I have been a KDE user for a long time, My first distro was Mandrake festen 5.3 and I have watched KDE evolve over the years getting cooler and cooler. from the Qt fiasco and the subsequent birth of the Gnomes to the Mosfet years (what ever happened to pixie and Daniel?)
I have to say, KDE just keeps getting more and more awesome! It seems that the best Ideas get introduced into KDE. I have to be honest, I am just a dirty, filthy end-user. I am involved in no tech field whatsoever. I'm a truck driver. I am glad to see that KDE is not following the path of brain-dead, (non) or not very-configurable interface. I stuck with KDE above everything else because I perceive the KDE devs don't presume that the end-user is a dunce-cap. FILL KDE with features and cool stuff! I don't have a problem waiting, I have no barbs to stick you with. just the Idea that We, the users will benefit from the collective technical know-how and imagination of the greatest collection of Very talented Programmers, artists, writers, debuggers, ect. a world spanning collective of brain power that no one Corporation could ever compete with.
oh well, enough with the honest platitudes :P
Looking forward to the future of 4 and beyond.
Madpuppy
Aaron,
Great work. Media center sounds very cool. I am wondering what new approaches could be taken with Multi-touch surface computing coming available-- One giant graphical remote.......
Also, Do you forsee cool visual effects like we get from Beryl being available in the LinuxMCE product? How cool would it bee to see a 3D accelerated interface as an option!
Thanks!
Daniel
First off, thanks for your work on KDE. I've been using it since 1.x and can patiently wait for 4.x. ;) Based on what I've read, it seems 'KDEmce' is LinuxMCE/PlutoHome rewritten to take advantage of Qt/KDE. Is this accurate?
Since MythTV used Qt, why not port Pluto's sweet frontend to MythTV? This to me would mean more to the community. I don't think another Linux media center is needed, especially when LinuxMCE/Pluto Home is essentially a pretty face on top of MythTV (and other software).
Kind regards,
Cecil
My analogic tv card cries every time
you name Mythtv, I hope that it will
be possible to disable live-tv
in those new mediacenter....
Yet another announcement in the plasma universe that will never happen. Oh well. We've gotten used to it by now...
@marcel: "Yet another announcement in the plasma universe that will never happen."
we actually have a 2009 GSoC project working on media center components and it's coming along quite nicely for inclusion in KDE 4.4.
the group i was working with (LinuxMCE) let their project fall off the rails, which impacted us as we were working with them. we had nothing to do with that, and tried to give them our support.
i talked with other media center type projects and they are all very content to be non-integrated projects. that's a design decision, and one i can appreciate and understand.
so we're now busy creating something specifically for plasma that provides your basic full screen media center experience that people have come to expect with a full featured desktop system.
"Oh well. We've gotten used to it by now..."
Activities, social desktop, flexible UI, netbook specific interface, plasmoid creator (plasmate), context computing (geolocation, nepomuk), remote plasmoids, beauty via theming and using advanced x11 facilities, scripting, highly componentized design ...
we promised and have delivered or have made significant progress on each of those things.
your sly accusation of not delivering isn't borne out by reality.
@marcel: btw, if the plasma team practice the sort of negative-nelly thinking you just demonstrated, we'd probably have nearly nothing to show at all.
every big step forward has been hard fought and hard won. do you know how many runs we took at semantic desktop stuff before nepomuk finally landed? how many _years_ we kept pecking at that beast?
the media center has been no different. it has had set backs and annoying events.
but we don't let that stop us. we don't go "well, we're screwed. let's go home and cry about it." we keep hammering at it and hammering at it, knowing exactly where we want to end up, until we succeed and finally get there.
the trick is not to let failed attempts get in the way; instead just create and then execute a "plan B".
when we prove you wrong about the media center features, i hope you take a moment to reflect upon that. because then maybe the negativity you shared with me will have had some actual benefit.
Did this make it into 4.4? I can't remember...
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